I am in Industrial Hygiene and would like to know more about sampling of
toxins in air, experiences with growth in air handling systems(mold
fungi),hypersensitivity pneumonitis diagnosis and other related topics
please forward any information to mberk…@PG908.jsc.nasa.gov
Matthew L. Berkheiser
Industrial Hygienist
Environmental Health Services
——————-==== Posted via Deja News ====———————–
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Please add me to the list of people who would like information on this
topic.
mbec…@ix.netcom.com
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:34:33 -0600, mberk…@GP908.jsc.nasa.gov wrote:
>I am in Industrial Hygiene and would like to know more about sampling of
>toxins in air, experiences with growth in air handling systems(mold
>fungi),hypersensitivity pneumonitis diagnosis and other related topics
>please forward any information to mberk…@PG908.jsc.nasa.gov
>Matthew L. Berkheiser
>Industrial Hygienist
>Environmental Health Services
>——————-==== Posted via Deja News ====———————–
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
There are several experts on this topic who lurk the newsgroup from time
to time. One who does not, I believe is Phil Morey. He can be contacted
at:
Philip R. Morey, Ph. D. CIH
Director of Microbiology
Air Quality Sciences
1337 Capital Circle
Atlanta, GA 30067
770-933-0638
fx 770-933-0641
Phil is among the best known in the field, because he has been a pillar
of knowledge and strength on the ASHRAE Committee working on Standard
62, which has wrestled with these issues extensively for the last 10
years.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
MLinc wrote:
> Please add me to the list of people who would like information on this topic. mbec…@ix.netcom.com
> On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:34:33 -0600, mberk…@GP908.jsc.nasa.gov wrote:
> >I am in Industrial Hygiene and would like to know more about sampling of
> >toxins in air, experiences with growth in air handling systems(mold
> >fungi),hypersensitivity pneumonitis diagnosis and other related topics
> >please forward any information to mberk…@PG908.jsc.nasa.gov
Dear Matthew,
I am a dealer for Alpine Industries. Our founder, Bill Converse, is an
expert in just the topics you have mentioned. We have a lot of
experience
with growing various molds and mildews in ducts and rooms. If you have
any specific question, I would be happy to find the answers for you.
If you are interested in the products, you may purchase them, or you may
become a dealer yourself.
We have thousands of letters testifying to the benefits of our products,
that destroy the mildews and molds. Our products make fresh air
electronically. We call it a "thunderstorm in a box." A million people
have one of our units and no complaints so far. We also do not have any
competition in the field. Maybe that’s why we are selling $28 Million
per month. (Success Magazine April ’97)
If you would like some information let me know what you have in mind,
and
I will send it to you by mail.
Sincerely,
Osmo Joronen
We have units for home and industry.
OCEAN FRESHAIR <Osmo_Joro…@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>We have thousands of letters testifying to the benefits of our products,
>that destroy the mildews and molds. Our products make fresh air
>electronically. We call it a "thunderstorm in a box." A million people
>have one of our units and no complaints so far. We also do not have any
>competition in the field. Maybe that’s why we are selling $28 Million
>per month. (Success Magazine April ’97)
Can you certify _zero_ ozone emmissions from your unit? If you cannot
you should provide a warning about this to people with asthma.
‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Please remove " * " if you wish to reply via email
OCEAN FRESHAIR <Osmo_Joro…@bc.sympatico.ca> writes:
>I am a dealer for Alpine Industries. Our founder, Bill Converse, is an
<snip>
>We have thousands of letters testifying to the benefits of our products,
>that destroy the mildews and molds. Our products make fresh air
>electronically. We call it a "thunderstorm in a box." A million people
>have one of our units and no complaints so far. We also do not have any
>competition in the field. Maybe that’s why we are selling $28 Million
>per month. (Success Magazine April ’97)
I was recently at an expo where several Alpine Air units were being
demonstrated and sold. As I was walking down the aisle where they were
[at the time not knowing they were thee], I started having problems breathing
and started feeling VERY strange [not a normal asthma attack strange, this
was more like hair standing strange, body feeling weird, which normally
I don't feel 'cept around high voltage power lines or lightning]. The problems
got worse the closer I got to the booth. Once I got near the booth and could
see it, I still hadn’t associated how I was feeling with it… Since I saw
the Alpine sign I figured I would go look at the products. BIG MISTAKE.
Once I was within about 6 feet of the units, I started feeling a lot worse, and
the strange feeling started to approximate that I’ve felt just before a nearby
lightning strike. The air smelt strongly of ozone and my lungs were NOT
pleased.
I left the booth. An hour or so later, well after I was feeling well again, I
happened back down that same aisle [without realizing it] and the same thing
happened; again, walking in front of the booth was NOT a pleasant
experience.
So, I know I certianly would never consider purchasing an Alpine unit, and
hence they certainly would not get any complaints from me!
Obviously, not everyone egts sick from these units as I do, but I am sure I
].
am not unique on the planet. In fact, I know I’m not, as others have
complained of the same thing [deja news is your friend
I do have a question regarding the no complaints claim:
I recall that sometime in the last few years the federal government invesitgated
Alpine or another similar dealer because of claims they made. Was it Alpine?
Why was the company [whichever co. it was ] being investigated? What were
the government’s findings??
SW.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Starwind wrote:
> OCEAN FRESHAIR <Osmo_Joro…@bc.sympatico.ca> writes:
> >I am a dealer for Alpine Industries. Our founder, Bill Converse, is an
> <snip>
> >We have thousands of letters testifying to the benefits of our products,
> >that destroy the mildews and molds. Our products make fresh air
> >electronically. We call it a "thunderstorm in a box." A million people
> >have one of our units and no complaints so far. We also do not have any
> >competition in the field. Maybe that’s why we are selling $28 Million
> >per month. (Success Magazine April ’97)
> I was recently at an expo where several Alpine Air units were being
> demonstrated and sold. As I was walking down the aisle where they were
> [at the time not knowing they were thee], I started having problems breathing
> and started feeling VERY strange [not a normal asthma attack strange, this
> was more like hair standing strange, body feeling weird, which normally
> I don't feel 'cept around high voltage power lines or lightning]. The problems
> got worse the closer I got to the booth. Once I got near the booth and could
> see it, I still hadn’t associated how I was feeling with it… Since I saw
> the Alpine sign I figured I would go look at the products. BIG MISTAKE.
> Once I was within about 6 feet of the units, I started feeling a lot worse, and
> the strange feeling started to approximate that I’ve felt just before a nearby
> lightning strike. The air smelt strongly of ozone and my lungs were NOT
> pleased.
> I left the booth. An hour or so later, well after I was feeling well again, I
> happened back down that same aisle [without realizing it] and the same thing
> happened; again, walking in front of the booth was NOT a pleasant
> experience.
> So, I know I certianly would never consider purchasing an Alpine unit, and
> hence they certainly would not get any complaints from me!
> Obviously, not everyone egts sick from these units as I do, but I am sure I
> am not unique on the planet. .
..
…
I am a satisfied Alpine customer. I will not be without my machine in
my living area because it stopped my breathing problems by cleaning up
the air in the house.
There is a dial on the front of the machine with a note on the new
machines that says that "MORE IS NOT BETTER". When I can smell the
ozone, the machine is dialed up too high, and just turn the knob
counterclockwise to a new setting, and it is fine. Also, the ozone
demand varies slightly with temperature. The warmer the room, the
higher the setting before I smell the ozone.
The friend who sold me the machine has an office with three people who
felt a little light headed the first week or so when their machine was
installed. Then they were fine and have never felt better. They
figured out that they were DETOXIFYING that first week and their bodies
adjusted with the mild cleansing from the better air quality the ozone
produced. I relate to that because I have had far fewer colds and flu
symptoms in the two years I have had my machine. It is doing something
positive that I like.
A booth where several Alpine machines are going at once can be
overwhelming. A ‘sick’ house with moldy ducts can be long term more
overwhelming. I would be selling these machines if I were not committed
to another program. They have turned my house into a ‘Colorado mountain
air’ smelling environment year round.
All the Alpine people I have run across give free trials. If it doesn’t
work for you, they will pick it up before you buy it. BUT, if it does
work for you, you will not let them put their hands on YOUR machine,
ever again, It’s yours for better healthy living with no more moldy
ducts.
I have logically concluded that trying one of these is a high percentage
play on health. A small but very vocal minority will be GLAD to tell
anyone who listens about any minor inconvenience they experienced with a
product. But the high percentage is from the people who have amazingly
better living conditions and health from the results of living with a
properly dial adjusted machine.
The only problem I have with the machine is in not buying it sooner. I
heard about these machines a long time ago, but the $600 retail was a
put off until I started smelling the moldy ducts really bad. Then I
found a friend who sold it wholesale without becoming a dealer, and I
installed it myself. My local dealer now tells me they have financing.
My problem of moldy ducts is solved. I hope you find your solution.
Have a nice day.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
LGT wrote:
> Starwind wrote:
> > OCEAN FRESHAIR <Osmo_Joro…@bc.sympatico.ca> writes:
> > >I am a dealer for Alpine Industries. Our founder, Bill Converse, is an
> > <snip>
> > >We have thousands of letters testifying to the benefits of our products,
> > >that destroy the mildews and molds. Our products make fresh air
> > >electronically. We call it a "thunderstorm in a box." A million people
> > >have one of our units and no complaints so far. We also do not have any
> > >competition in the field. Maybe that’s why we are selling $28 Million
> > >per month. (Success Magazine April ’97)
> > I was recently at an expo where several Alpine Air units were being
> > demonstrated and sold. As I was walking down the aisle where they were
> > [at the time not knowing they were thee], I started having problems breathing
> > and started feeling VERY strange [not a normal asthma attack strange, this
> > was more like hair standing strange, body feeling weird, which normally
> > I don't feel 'cept around high voltage power lines or lightning]. The problems
> > got worse the closer I got to the booth. Once I got near the booth and could
> > see it, I still hadn’t associated how I was feeling with it… Since I saw
> > the Alpine sign I figured I would go look at the products. BIG MISTAKE.
> > Once I was within about 6 feet of the units, I started feeling a lot worse, and
> > the strange feeling started to approximate that I’ve felt just before a nearby
> > lightning strike. The air smelt strongly of ozone and my lungs were NOT
> > pleased.
> > I left the booth. An hour or so later, well after I was feeling well again, I
> > happened back down that same aisle [without realizing it] and the same thing
> > happened; again, walking in front of the booth was NOT a pleasant
> > experience.
> > So, I know I certianly would never consider purchasing an Alpine unit, and
> > hence they certainly would not get any complaints from me!
> > Obviously, not everyone egts sick from these units as I do, but I am sure I
> > am not unique on the planet. .
> ..
> …
> I am a satisfied Alpine customer. I will not be without my machine in
> my living area because it stopped my breathing problems by cleaning up
> the air in the house.
> There is a dial on the front of the machine with a note on the new
> machines that says that "MORE IS NOT BETTER". When I can smell the
> ozone, the machine is dialed up too high, and just turn the knob
> counterclockwise to a new setting, and it is fine. Also, the ozone
> demand varies slightly with temperature. The warmer the room, the
> higher the setting before I smell the ozone.
> The friend who sold me the machine has an office with three people who
> felt a little light headed the first week or so when their machine was
> installed. Then they were fine and have never felt better. They
> figured out that they were DETOXIFYING that first week and their bodies
> adjusted with the mild cleansing from the better air quality the ozone
> produced. I relate to that because I have had far fewer colds and flu
> symptoms in the two years I have had my machine. It is doing something
> positive that I like.
> A booth where several Alpine machines are going at once can be
> overwhelming. A ‘sick’ house with moldy ducts can be long term more
> overwhelming. I would be selling these machines if I were not committed
> to another program. They have turned my house into a ‘Colorado mountain
> air’ smelling environment year round.
> All the Alpine people I have run across give free trials. If it doesn’t
> work for you, they will pick it up before you buy it. BUT, if it does
> work for you, you will not let them put their hands on YOUR machine,
> ever again, It’s yours for better healthy living with no more moldy
> ducts.
> I have logically concluded that trying one of these is a high percentage
> play on health. A small but very vocal minority will be GLAD to tell
> anyone who listens about any minor inconvenience they experienced with a
> product. But the high percentage is from the people who have amazingly
> better living conditions and health from the results of living with a
> properly dial adjusted machine.
> The only problem I have with the machine is in not buying it sooner. I
> heard about these machines a long time ago, but the $600 retail was a
> put off until I started smelling the moldy ducts really bad. Then I
> found a friend who sold it wholesale without becoming a dealer, and I
> installed it myself. My local dealer now tells me they have financing.
> My problem of moldy ducts is solved. I hope you find your solution.
> Have a nice day.
While I suspect that this device can be effective in cleaning the air
and therefore can be quite satisfying to use, this kind of testimony
could be dangerous. The satisfied user cannot comment on the long-term
effects of exposure to dangerous levels of ozone on his lungs.
—
————————————————————————-
Mark Feblowitz, GTE Laboratories Inc., 40 Sylvan Rd. Waltham, MA
02254
mfeblow…@GTE.com
LGT <lgtur…@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
…………
>My problem of moldy ducts is solved. I hope you find your solution.
I recall that a decade or two back it was admitted that more people
were being found allergic to molds than to pollens. However, I found
allergists to continue to form their practices (often really gouging)
90% based on pollens. I’ve had allergic problems with molds in
basement rooms I’ve inhabited in the past. That may have been at
least partially the cause of my later nasal mucosal atrophy, which no
profession wants to do anything reasonable about.
In the ’60s, I built a negative-ion generator per a magazine
construction article. Gave negative ions but did nothing for me, at a
time when my nose didn’t work right, but when there probably wasn’t
any mold-allergic effect on it. In the ’70s, during these machines’
fad days, I checked out some, with no useful results. I assume
producing such ions and passing air through a fine filter is all
that’s involved in whatever you’re talking about here.
Ray
E.Freeman
efa…@gte.net
Perhaps you had better clean out your air ducts and reduce/stop/cure the
problem at the source. Not a stop-gap measure of filtration after the mold
exits the ductwork. Mold seldom becomes less unless it is stopped at the
source or the condition causing the mold to grow is cleaned out.
Aloha,
Edmund
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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> > My problem of moldy ducts is solved. I hope you find your solution.
> > Have a nice day.
> While I suspect that this device can be effective in cleaning the air
> and therefore can be quite satisfying to use, this kind of testimony
> could be dangerous. The satisfied user cannot comment on the long-term
> effects of exposure to dangerous levels of ozone on his lungs.
> —
Many long term studies have been done to examine the long term effects
of ozone exposure to the lungs. NO SCIENTIFIC STUDY has ever shown that
ozone levels such as those produced by the Alpine units is harmful even
to those with asthma. Check the medline, etc before you make comments to
scare people. The facts are that ozone is very beneficial in a indoor
sealed environment, and azone reacts, does not build up. The scientific
literature points out that the pollutants which the ozone removes from
the indoor air are much more dangerous than the ozone produced by the
units.
And no, I DO NOT sell the units. I do, however own one, happily so, and
before I purchased it I did an exhaustive research for myself, not
wanting to be influenced either by the salesman or the nay-sayers.
CLE
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LGT <lgtur…@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>I am a satisfied Alpine customer. I will not be without my machine in
>my living area because it stopped my breathing problems by cleaning up
>the air in the house.
What kind of breathing problems were these?
>There is a dial on the front of the machine with a note on the new
>machines that says that "MORE IS NOT BETTER". When I can smell the
>ozone, the machine is dialed up too high, and just turn the knob
>counterclockwise to a new setting, and it is fine. Also, the ozone
>demand varies slightly with temperature. The warmer the room, the
>higher the setting before I smell the ozone.
Workplace exposure limits for ozone (based on a 40 hour/week exposure)
are 0.1 PPM Short-Term Exposure Limits (time-weighted average for 15
min.) are 0.3 PPM. IDLH (Imminent Danger to Life or Health) is 10
PPM.
In plain english, these limits are 1 part of ozone for every 10
million parts of air for ‘everyday’ exposures, with 3 parts in 10
million averaged over 15 min total for short term exposures.
Now I do not know how well your nose is calibrated, but I suspect that
by the time you can smell the ozone you are either near or have
exceeded the ‘IDLH’ levels.
BTW, how do these settings work? Are they calibrated to a specefic
ozone output such as 0.09 PPM? Can you be sure that you are not being
exposed to dangerous levels of ozone?
>All the Alpine people I have run across give free trials. If it doesn’t
>work for you, they will pick it up before you buy it. BUT, if it does
>work for you, you will not let them put their hands on YOUR machine,
>ever again, It’s yours for better healthy living with no more moldy
>ducts.
I am not about to try any ozone-producing device. I have asthma and I
am aware that the numbers I posted above Do Not Apply To Me. Ozone is
right beside tobacco smoke as an ‘avoid at all costs’ item for
asthamics.
‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Please remove " * " if you wish to reply via email
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
OCEAN FRESHAIR wrote:
> Dear Matthew,
> I am a dealer for Alpine Industries. Our founder, Bill Converse, is an
> expert in just the topics you have mentioned. We have a lot of
> experience
> with growing various molds and mildews in ducts and rooms. If you have
> any specific question, I would be happy to find the answers for you.
> If you are interested in the products, you may purchase them, or you may
> become a dealer yourself.
> We have thousands of letters testifying to the benefits of our products,
> that destroy the mildews and molds. Our products make fresh air
> electronically. We call it a "thunderstorm in a box." A million people
> have one of our units and no complaints so far. We also do not have any
> competition in the field. Maybe that’s why we are selling $28 Million
> per month. (Success Magazine April ’97)
> If you would like some information let me know what you have in mind,
> and
> I will send it to you by mail.
> Sincerely,
> Osmo Joronen
> We have units for home and industry.
I Think we are missing the boat here. Abatment technology deals with the
problem after it has occured. A trained IAQ evaluator will determine
what of three factors are leading to a mold problem and will recommend
remediation to eliminate the problem, not treat the by product of
microbiological emissions after the fact with ozaone!
Jeremy Lowe (GTE/wood…@gte.net) wrote:
: I Think we are missing the boat here. Abatment technology deals with the
: problem after it has occured. A trained IAQ evaluator will determine
: what of three factors are leading to a mold problem and will recommend
: remediation to eliminate the problem, not treat the by product of
: microbiological emissions after the fact with ozone!
Hear! Hear!
Moreover, if you have microbiological emissions, that probably means you
have microbiological life forms… which reproduce blindingly fast. How
much ozone would you need to control the microbiological emissions, which
would likely be in parts per million? Note that one ozone molecule will
only react with one other molecule to oxidise the molecule and produce
one molecule of oxygen.
Cheers,
Kin Hoong
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote:
> Jeremy Lowe (GTE/wood…@gte.net) wrote:
> : I Think we are missing the boat here. Abatment technology deals with the
> : problem after it has occured. A trained IAQ evaluator will determine
> : what of three factors are leading to a mold problem and will recommend
> : remediation to eliminate the problem, not treat the by product of
> : microbiological emissions after the fact with ozone!
> Hear! Hear!
> Moreover, if you have microbiological emissions, that probably means you
> have microbiological life forms… which reproduce blindingly fast. How
> much ozone would you need to control the microbiological emissions, which
> would likely be in parts per million? Note that one ozone molecule will
> only react with one other molecule to oxidise the molecule and produce
> one molecule of oxygen.
> Cheers,
> Kin Hoong
The only way to deal with moldy air ducts is to fog them with Germ
Stoppers. This is a new way to purify the home and they use a solution
that has been in hospitals for years. Usually a pest control company
is connected to this firm out of FL.
Cheryl Gonzalez, Registered Dietitian
Board Certified Clinical Nutritionist
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Cheryl wrote:
> Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote:
> > Jeremy Lowe (GTE/wood…@gte.net) wrote:
> > : I Think we are missing the boat here. Abatment technology deals with the
> > : problem after it has occured. A trained IAQ evaluator will determine
> > : what of three factors are leading to a mold problem and will recommend
> > : remediation to eliminate the problem, not treat the by product of
> > : microbiological emissions after the fact with ozone!
> > Hear! Hear!
> > Moreover, if you have microbiological emissions, that probably means you
> > have microbiological life forms… which reproduce blindingly fast. How
> > much ozone would you need to control the microbiological emissions, which
> > would likely be in parts per million? Note that one ozone molecule will
> > only react with one other molecule to oxidise the molecule and produce
> > one molecule of oxygen.
> > Cheers,
> > Kin Hoong
> The only way to deal with moldy air ducts is to fog them with Germ
> Stoppers. This is a new way to purify the home and they use a solution
> that has been in hospitals for years. Usually a pest control company
> is connected to this firm out of FL.
> Cheryl Gonzalez, Registered Dietitian
> Board Certified Clinical Nutritionist
Cheryl,
I must agree that foggine with a product such as Oxine is effective in
rapid control of mold, however we are still back to the basic problem
that with in a short period of time a reinfestation will occur.
Fiberglass duct work for instance is a haven for biological growth,
foging and cleaning is a short term solution.
There are three factors that effect the growth of microbiological
contamination in an HVAC system.
1> Food source, mold must have a food source such as dust or pollen
2> Temperature, mold requires a specific temprature to grow
3> Moisture, mold requires humidity greater than 60% on average.
Address any one of the three key components and you are on the way to a
permanent fix.